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	<title>
	Comments on: People Do It Because We Let Them: Part 5	</title>
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	<link>https://bodyrecomposition.com/dogs/people-do-it-because-we-let-them-5</link>
	<description>The Home of Lyle McDonald</description>
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		<title>
		By: SCSF		</title>
		<link>https://bodyrecomposition.com/dogs/people-do-it-because-we-let-them-5#comment-6618</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SCSF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=6786#comment-6618</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good stuff. That reads like an update to &quot;Don&#039;t Shoot the Dog&quot;, one of my favorite pulp-dog / human psychology books :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff. That reads like an update to &#8220;Don&#8217;t Shoot the Dog&#8221;, one of my favorite pulp-dog / human psychology books 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: lylemcd		</title>
		<link>https://bodyrecomposition.com/dogs/people-do-it-because-we-let-them-5#comment-6617</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lylemcd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=6786#comment-6617</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Probably better to call it an imprint in this case since strict behaviorism would predict NO association between two temporally seprated events.  I was just trying to illustrate the point that not only can humans link two things that didn&#039;t occur simultaneously (pointing out that humans are at least marginally more complicated than dogs) but that we have the ability to conceptually link two actions that are more likely to occur together. Something dogs can&#039;t do.  But yes, thank you for the correction, August. :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably better to call it an imprint in this case since strict behaviorism would predict NO association between two temporally seprated events.  I was just trying to illustrate the point that not only can humans link two things that didn&#8217;t occur simultaneously (pointing out that humans are at least marginally more complicated than dogs) but that we have the ability to conceptually link two actions that are more likely to occur together. Something dogs can&#8217;t do.  But yes, thank you for the correction, August. 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: August Pamplona		</title>
		<link>https://bodyrecomposition.com/dogs/people-do-it-because-we-let-them-5#comment-6616</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[August Pamplona]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=6786#comment-6616</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You used a fairly bad example with the opera and the being sick and the food poisoning association the next day which makes your statements wrong on a couple of points.

First of all, strict behaviorism predicts that we won&#039;t associate anything at all with being sick the next day. Though we have a much longer memory than a dog, classical conditioning still does not work on that time scale. We may use conscious learning (by consciously recalling things and reasoning things through, just as you say --which I assume is your real point) but that is not the same as being conditioned in a behaviorist sense. The difference is important and it is probably partly because of this difference that, like you mention, rewarding soon is better than rewarding later and thus resorting to conscious learning (as humans, we probably like to think that we don&#039;t respond to classical conditioning, but we do).

The other issue here is that when we get up feeling sick the next day we might very likely associate being sick with whatever we had to eat the night before but there&#039;s a good chance that this association may have nothing to do with logically looking at it and realizing that being sick from food makes more sense than being sick from opera (again, one could question even this point but I digress). Food aversion seems to be a special case which does not follow the timing requirements from behaviorist theory and yet there&#039;s nothing conscious about it. Rats can do it and it is doubtful that they are reasoning about how food can sometimes make you sick and about whether there was anything different in the rat chow the night before. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_aversion .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You used a fairly bad example with the opera and the being sick and the food poisoning association the next day which makes your statements wrong on a couple of points.</p>
<p>First of all, strict behaviorism predicts that we won&#8217;t associate anything at all with being sick the next day. Though we have a much longer memory than a dog, classical conditioning still does not work on that time scale. We may use conscious learning (by consciously recalling things and reasoning things through, just as you say &#8211;which I assume is your real point) but that is not the same as being conditioned in a behaviorist sense. The difference is important and it is probably partly because of this difference that, like you mention, rewarding soon is better than rewarding later and thus resorting to conscious learning (as humans, we probably like to think that we don&#8217;t respond to classical conditioning, but we do).</p>
<p>The other issue here is that when we get up feeling sick the next day we might very likely associate being sick with whatever we had to eat the night before but there&#8217;s a good chance that this association may have nothing to do with logically looking at it and realizing that being sick from food makes more sense than being sick from opera (again, one could question even this point but I digress). Food aversion seems to be a special case which does not follow the timing requirements from behaviorist theory and yet there&#8217;s nothing conscious about it. Rats can do it and it is doubtful that they are reasoning about how food can sometimes make you sick and about whether there was anything different in the rat chow the night before. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_aversion" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_aversion</a> .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Éric Lépine		</title>
		<link>https://bodyrecomposition.com/dogs/people-do-it-because-we-let-them-5#comment-6615</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Éric Lépine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=6786#comment-6615</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great article Lyle!!! Especially fitting since the &quot;Terrible Twos&quot; are nothing, we&#039;re finding out, as our boy is now 3 and, we were naive enough to think that we had been spared the former... Good advice in there, unknowingly I&#039;m sure :)

As for the teaser, a good teaser it is!!! Can&#039;t wait to read your opinions on that... Will make for good discussion I&#039;m sure. I&#039;ve trained in the past under Pierre Roy here in Montréal (look him up; he&#039;s a &quot;subtle and humble&quot; legend in the sport) and, we&#039;ve discussed this very idea many times (at least with regards to Canadian Olympic Lifting which, generally speaking, sucks just as bad as US OL!!!!).

Lots to look forward to then...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Lyle!!! Especially fitting since the &#8220;Terrible Twos&#8221; are nothing, we&#8217;re finding out, as our boy is now 3 and, we were naive enough to think that we had been spared the former&#8230; Good advice in there, unknowingly I&#8217;m sure 🙂</p>
<p>As for the teaser, a good teaser it is!!! Can&#8217;t wait to read your opinions on that&#8230; Will make for good discussion I&#8217;m sure. I&#8217;ve trained in the past under Pierre Roy here in Montréal (look him up; he&#8217;s a &#8220;subtle and humble&#8221; legend in the sport) and, we&#8217;ve discussed this very idea many times (at least with regards to Canadian Olympic Lifting which, generally speaking, sucks just as bad as US OL!!!!).</p>
<p>Lots to look forward to then&#8230;</p>
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